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	<title>Comments on: I&#8217;ll Buy a House When You Stop Asking Me!</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.investingintelligently.com/2006/07/29/ill-buy-a-house-when-you-stop-asking-me/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.investingintelligently.com/2006/07/29/ill-buy-a-house-when-you-stop-asking-me/</link>
	<description>Not just another (Canadian) financial blog</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 10:41:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.investingintelligently.com/2006/07/29/ill-buy-a-house-when-you-stop-asking-me/#comment-5777</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Feb 2007 02:19:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.investingintelligently.com/2006/07/29/ill-buy-a-house-when-you-stop-asking-me/#comment-5777</guid>
		<description>I'll agree with that!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll agree with that!</p>
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		<title>By: silverm</title>
		<link>http://www.investingintelligently.com/2006/07/29/ill-buy-a-house-when-you-stop-asking-me/#comment-5776</link>
		<dc:creator>silverm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Feb 2007 01:45:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.investingintelligently.com/2006/07/29/ill-buy-a-house-when-you-stop-asking-me/#comment-5776</guid>
		<description>There are scenarios that work either ways.  All I'm saying is that you don't have to sell your home to realize profits.  You're realizing it every month by rents saved and you protect yourself from future rent increases.  

Don't forget that you pay rents with after-tax dollars.  So, you rents saved are amplified if you calculate yield in pre-tax dollars.

When you sell stocks, what if the profits can't cover your rents in the short term?  What if you sold at a loss? 

Both stocks and home can be good or bad investments depending on what price you paid for them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are scenarios that work either ways.  All I&#8217;m saying is that you don&#8217;t have to sell your home to realize profits.  You&#8217;re realizing it every month by rents saved and you protect yourself from future rent increases.  </p>
<p>Don&#8217;t forget that you pay rents with after-tax dollars.  So, you rents saved are amplified if you calculate yield in pre-tax dollars.</p>
<p>When you sell stocks, what if the profits can&#8217;t cover your rents in the short term?  What if you sold at a loss? </p>
<p>Both stocks and home can be good or bad investments depending on what price you paid for them.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.investingintelligently.com/2006/07/29/ill-buy-a-house-when-you-stop-asking-me/#comment-5775</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Feb 2007 01:29:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.investingintelligently.com/2006/07/29/ill-buy-a-house-when-you-stop-asking-me/#comment-5775</guid>
		<description>Interesting points - from your comments it sounds like a house will pay increasing dividends which will cover the alternative rising rent costs.  This still doesn't necessarily make it a good investment though if the dividend yield is not high enough to make it worthwhile.  The reality is that there are scenarios where a person would be better off just renting and investing the difference between the house costs and the rent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting points - from your comments it sounds like a house will pay increasing dividends which will cover the alternative rising rent costs.  This still doesn&#8217;t necessarily make it a good investment though if the dividend yield is not high enough to make it worthwhile.  The reality is that there are scenarios where a person would be better off just renting and investing the difference between the house costs and the rent.</p>
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		<title>By: silverm</title>
		<link>http://www.investingintelligently.com/2006/07/29/ill-buy-a-house-when-you-stop-asking-me/#comment-5772</link>
		<dc:creator>silverm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Feb 2007 22:08:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.investingintelligently.com/2006/07/29/ill-buy-a-house-when-you-stop-asking-me/#comment-5772</guid>
		<description>"the profit you make on a stock can be realized and you can (eventually) use it to pay for something, utility bills, tv, dinner etc."

Without a house, your stock profits would have to cover your rents   annual increases.

"With a house - you just can’t do that very easily unless you downsize or move to a cheaper area."

No need.  With a house, you realize the profits by not having to pay rents and increases.  A dollar saved is a dollar earned.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;the profit you make on a stock can be realized and you can (eventually) use it to pay for something, utility bills, tv, dinner etc.&#8221;</p>
<p>Without a house, your stock profits would have to cover your rents   annual increases.</p>
<p>&#8220;With a house - you just can’t do that very easily unless you downsize or move to a cheaper area.&#8221;</p>
<p>No need.  With a house, you realize the profits by not having to pay rents and increases.  A dollar saved is a dollar earned.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.investingintelligently.com/2006/07/29/ill-buy-a-house-when-you-stop-asking-me/#comment-5730</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Feb 2007 21:04:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.investingintelligently.com/2006/07/29/ill-buy-a-house-when-you-stop-asking-me/#comment-5730</guid>
		<description>Just going through the archives and I can't resist a comment:  I agree with Dave on this one, while technically any profit in something you own is a profit - the profit you make on a stock can be realized and you can (eventually) use it to pay for something, utility bills, tv, dinner etc.  With a house - you just can't do that very easily unless you downsize or move to a cheaper area.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just going through the archives and I can&#8217;t resist a comment:  I agree with Dave on this one, while technically any profit in something you own is a profit - the profit you make on a stock can be realized and you can (eventually) use it to pay for something, utility bills, tv, dinner etc.  With a house - you just can&#8217;t do that very easily unless you downsize or move to a cheaper area.</p>
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		<title>By: Investing Intelligently &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Calgary Real Estate Update</title>
		<link>http://www.investingintelligently.com/2006/07/29/ill-buy-a-house-when-you-stop-asking-me/#comment-2853</link>
		<dc:creator>Investing Intelligently &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Calgary Real Estate Update</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Oct 2006 18:24:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.investingintelligently.com/2006/07/29/ill-buy-a-house-when-you-stop-asking-me/#comment-2853</guid>
		<description>[...] In an earlier article, I quoted a Calgary Contrarian article (note that Calgary Contrarian has moved) that said:  if you want an excellent predictor of timing, continue to follow the inventory situation. . . Right now we are just below 2000 active listings, which is extremely low by historical standards. If you see that number start to climb back to &#8220;normal&#8221; levels of between 5000-6000 you can expect prices to slow down or even begin to drop slightly. As the number goes much above that level, you should see prices begin to decline. That is the pattern we have seen in many US cities. Once a bubble market exhausts itself, there is a rapid climb in inventory levels, followed by prices beginning to decline. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] In an earlier article, I quoted a Calgary Contrarian article (note that Calgary Contrarian has moved) that said:  if you want an excellent predictor of timing, continue to follow the inventory situation. . . Right now we are just below 2000 active listings, which is extremely low by historical standards. If you see that number start to climb back to &#8220;normal&#8221; levels of between 5000-6000 you can expect prices to slow down or even begin to drop slightly. As the number goes much above that level, you should see prices begin to decline. That is the pattern we have seen in many US cities. Once a bubble market exhausts itself, there is a rapid climb in inventory levels, followed by prices beginning to decline. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.investingintelligently.com/2006/07/29/ill-buy-a-house-when-you-stop-asking-me/#comment-1265</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Aug 2006 06:43:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.investingintelligently.com/2006/07/29/ill-buy-a-house-when-you-stop-asking-me/#comment-1265</guid>
		<description>ralph:

I just ran through some more scenarios in this little &lt;a href="https://www.vancity.com/MyMoney/Tools/Calculators/RentvsBuy/" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow"&gt;rent vs. buy calculator&lt;/a&gt; and you can see (when the variables are set right) how real estate can perform better than other investments but in the long term. Although there is still the fact that I think people often don't tap the equity in their homes before they die (at least my grandparents haven't) and instead just spend their retirement savings and/or pensions. I think there's certainly a lot more safety in putting some money into a home and having that home to live in when you retire (or having a home that you can sell when you retire) rather than counting on your other investments being able to cover your rent and/or mortgage payments when you're 65. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ralph:</p>
<p>I just ran through some more scenarios in this little <a href="https://www.vancity.com/MyMoney/Tools/Calculators/RentvsBuy/" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">rent vs. buy calculator</a> and you can see (when the variables are set right) how real estate can perform better than other investments but in the long term. Although there is still the fact that I think people often don&#8217;t tap the equity in their homes before they die (at least my grandparents haven&#8217;t) and instead just spend their retirement savings and/or pensions. I think there&#8217;s certainly a lot more safety in putting some money into a home and having that home to live in when you retire (or having a home that you can sell when you retire) rather than counting on your other investments being able to cover your rent and/or mortgage payments when you&#8217;re 65. <img src='http://www.investingintelligently.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.investingintelligently.com/2006/07/29/ill-buy-a-house-when-you-stop-asking-me/#comment-1264</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Aug 2006 06:34:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.investingintelligently.com/2006/07/29/ill-buy-a-house-when-you-stop-asking-me/#comment-1264</guid>
		<description>ralph:

1. True, I kind of glossed over that (by glossed over I mean ignored)
2. Excellent point about short term vs. long term. In addition to the inflation argument, can we also say that in the short-term the home buyer is paying a lot in interest and very little towards the asset and near the end is putting a lot towards the asset?
3. Good point (kind of...). However, if I have been saving a lot towards retirement right now and my friend hasn't been saving any, then while she won't be paying mortgage payments in her golden years (and I might), she will be putting a lot of money into retirement savings (and I might not have to). In the end doesn't it just depend on who had the higher IRR (including all cash flows, towards housing and retirement) once you turn 65 (or whatever). Or more simplisticly, who had the higher return on their investment. If housing prices move with inflation over the next 40 years and my stocks and bonds make 8% ABOVE inflation I don't see how I could go wrong.
4. Right, however, the interest changes over time, so it gets complicated, and any increases in her home's value do affect her net worth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ralph:</p>
<p>1. True, I kind of glossed over that (by glossed over I mean ignored)<br />
2. Excellent point about short term vs. long term. In addition to the inflation argument, can we also say that in the short-term the home buyer is paying a lot in interest and very little towards the asset and near the end is putting a lot towards the asset?<br />
3. Good point (kind of&#8230;). However, if I have been saving a lot towards retirement right now and my friend hasn&#8217;t been saving any, then while she won&#8217;t be paying mortgage payments in her golden years (and I might), she will be putting a lot of money into retirement savings (and I might not have to). In the end doesn&#8217;t it just depend on who had the higher IRR (including all cash flows, towards housing and retirement) once you turn 65 (or whatever). Or more simplisticly, who had the higher return on their investment. If housing prices move with inflation over the next 40 years and my stocks and bonds make 8% ABOVE inflation I don&#8217;t see how I could go wrong.<br />
4. Right, however, the interest changes over time, so it gets complicated, and any increases in her home&#8217;s value do affect her net worth.</p>
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		<title>By: ralph</title>
		<link>http://www.investingintelligently.com/2006/07/29/ill-buy-a-house-when-you-stop-asking-me/#comment-1224</link>
		<dc:creator>ralph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Aug 2006 13:14:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.investingintelligently.com/2006/07/29/ill-buy-a-house-when-you-stop-asking-me/#comment-1224</guid>
		<description>Can't resist a comment or two.

1. While real estate gain in your own home is 'paper' until you sell (as are all unrealised profits), you CAN realise it without selling - just get the house reappraised and borrow against your equity. A home equity loan is just about the cheapest finance you can get for gearing - at least 1% less than any margin loan you'll find

2. Yes, renting is cheaper than buying - in the short term. As your home loan is based on the amount borrowed, it will stay roughly constant over time. While your rent will increase with inflation... Compare your friends home loan payments with what rent will be costing in ten years time.

3. While most home owners probably won't sell their house, the main benefit will be that in their retirement they will have paid off the loan and have minimal housing costs (just repairs etc.) This will put your friend WAY ahead in her 'golden years'

4. Don't forget you compare rents to the Interest only part of a P&#38;I home loan - the principal repayment component of her payments are just shifting her assets from her bank account into home equity - doesn't affect her net worth at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can&#8217;t resist a comment or two.</p>
<p>1. While real estate gain in your own home is &#8216;paper&#8217; until you sell (as are all unrealised profits), you CAN realise it without selling - just get the house reappraised and borrow against your equity. A home equity loan is just about the cheapest finance you can get for gearing - at least 1% less than any margin loan you&#8217;ll find</p>
<p>2. Yes, renting is cheaper than buying - in the short term. As your home loan is based on the amount borrowed, it will stay roughly constant over time. While your rent will increase with inflation&#8230; Compare your friends home loan payments with what rent will be costing in ten years time.</p>
<p>3. While most home owners probably won&#8217;t sell their house, the main benefit will be that in their retirement they will have paid off the loan and have minimal housing costs (just repairs etc.) This will put your friend WAY ahead in her &#8216;golden years&#8217;</p>
<p>4. Don&#8217;t forget you compare rents to the Interest only part of a P&amp;I home loan - the principal repayment component of her payments are just shifting her assets from her bank account into home equity - doesn&#8217;t affect her net worth at all.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.investingintelligently.com/2006/07/29/ill-buy-a-house-when-you-stop-asking-me/#comment-1024</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Aug 2006 09:18:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.investingintelligently.com/2006/07/29/ill-buy-a-house-when-you-stop-asking-me/#comment-1024</guid>
		<description>I'll just respond to the last comment. Of course I would rather be in her position because for me I would probably do everything in my power to sell and rent for a while (if possible, it's not always that easy obviously). I don't think my friend has any intention of selling any time soon, nor would they take equity out of that home so for them they are in it for the long term and the recent blip won't have a big effect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll just respond to the last comment. Of course I would rather be in her position because for me I would probably do everything in my power to sell and rent for a while (if possible, it&#8217;s not always that easy obviously). I don&#8217;t think my friend has any intention of selling any time soon, nor would they take equity out of that home so for them they are in it for the long term and the recent blip won&#8217;t have a big effect.</p>
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